Terry, you know how you call me ‘love’, why do you do that?
Because I do love you and it’s an affectionate term.
But Terry, when you do it, it makes me feel bad.
It does, why?
That’s what I’m trying to work out. It doesn’t seem right somehow, like it’s not a very sincere thing you’re saying, more like it’s just something you’ve learnt to say and you believe it makes the other person feel good. So often you sort of clip it off when you say it, going down at the end and I don’t feel that you’re really giving it to me, not with any real feeling.
Well I do say it with feeling.
Yes, I’m sure you believe you do, but the more you say it the more it grates on me, and really I’d rather you didn’t say it.
All right I won’t.
No, that’s not good, that’s not how we do it, remember, I am just to talk about all I feel but that doesn’t mean you have to do as I say and stop doing what you’re doing. You’re to keep doing what you do but to try and feel why you’re doing it, so when you say it you can see how you feel about it.
Okay, but you’ll have to pull me up when I say it because I doubt I’ll be aware of it... and now having said that, yeah, you know, I can feel that it is a bit of a habit, something that I say at certain times because that’s what’s expected of me. Yeah, I guess that’s what it is, and I can feel that actually now we’re talking about it, that I do feel it’s what I’m meant to say, yes, like it’s the right thing to say at the right time.
Yes, and that’s why it doesn’t feel real right to me. It’s like you’re just saying it because you’ve been told you should, but it’s without deeper and real feeling, so it doesn’t sound sincere. It’s like always having to say please and thank you for everything ‘because it’s good manners’, but in the end you just say the words because you have to or else you’ll get into trouble, but it’s without feeling.
Yeah I can see what you mean, I do that too.
I know, that’s why it came into my mind, we both do, so what say we stop saying please and thank you for everything, how would you feel about that?
Okay, but again it might be hard to do, I’m so programmed to say it.
Exactly, and that’s what’s wrong, it’s that we’ve both been programmed, but we’re here together in this relationship and we’ve been together for some time now, so I think we can stop all the manners, we can try to be ourselves, to stop doing it, and then we might be able to feel as to whether or not we really do feel we want to say those things. And if we do, then we’ll be more real and true in them and so saying them with feeling.
Yeah all right, I like the sound of that. So we’ll stop saying all those niceties and I’ll try and stop calling you ‘love’ and we’ll see how we feel about it.
Yes, and as usual, speaking about it all, all we think and feel all the way along.
Did you have to sit at the table and say grace before meals?
God no, did you?
But you weren’t religious.
I know, but we still had to say it, when we were young. It think it was a legacy of our grandparents.
So what was that like?
It was just what we did, but now that I remember I hated it. I couldn’t see the point to it, I just wanted to get going on with my dinner.
We had to sit at the table and be all family and do the family thing; and we had to say ‘Can you pass the salt please...’ And thank you, but that was all.
Yeah, now I feel more angry about it. I mean, what was it all about. It was meaningless and that makes me feel very angry.
Because I hate doing meaningless things.
But why, I mean don’t we all, so why are you saying it, something that’s so obvious?
Shit I hate it, the anger is surging up in me now. I really hate it, I want to shout at them, stop saying that, it’s so pointless, there’s no point, there’s no meaning, would you stop that, STOP THAT!
Who are you saying that too?
I don’t know, but all I feel like is I’m dad, and he’s saying that to me, to stop it, stop carrying on, it’s pointless, when you speak it’s got to have meaning. Yeah which is all right for them isn’t it, when they said such meaningless things as Grace when we never went to church or anything like that. I mean, how meaningless and pointless can you be. I mean I can understand that if you wanted to thank God or some higher-power for your meal, sure, why not, but just say such a meaningless repetitive thing, that being said by rote and with no feeling. It was always dad who said it, and we bowed our heads like we knew what we were doing, but it was all bullshit, what a waste of life having to be made to do something so meaningless as that.
Shit I feel angry Ann, so fucking angry and for just a small thing like that.
But it’s not a small thing Terry, like all these things, often they seem like little trivial things, but they are all attached to deeper things within us, to all your repressed rage you’ve still got to be bring up. Look at how angry you feel, that’s all coming from much deeper within you, and there were probably lost of meaningless things you were made to do that you hated doing, and lots of things you wanted to do that had meaning for you, but they said were meaningless.
Yeah, you’re probably right, and it’s so unfair, that’s making me feel even more angry. It’s so unfair the control they have over us, always making it be how they want it, and we never being allowed to have it how we wanted it. I wonder how much I would have done in my childhood had they allowed me to be free, there were so many things I wanted to do, I can remember that, but they said no to them. And as you say, they probably said they were meaningless and pointless, and yet they would have had a point and meaning for me, all so I could discover and find out life for myself, but no, it was all how they wanted it. I mean, sure they did allow me to do a lot of what I wanted to do, but how I feel now is they didn’t let me do anything.
And Terry not being allowed to do one thing is a huge thing when you want to do it, and when you’re growing and forming and your feelings are leading you this way and that, to then be stopped just doing one thing, that hurts, it can be traumatic, and then you’re told not to carry on, and if you do you get punished making it even worse. All of that is what our problem is, we’re stuffed full of all that anger, so angry for not being allowed to do all we wanted to do, not being allowed to be how we wanted to be, not being free, and having to change ourselves and be how they wanted us to be.
Yeah well I feel really pissed with them, fuck them, who do they think they are, what right to do they have to control me so much. I mean, fuck, how was I to come out into life and find my own way with them controlling me all the time and so much. Having to say fucking Grace, I mean who were they, were they still only being good little children doing what their parents told and made them do. It’s so wrong, and all the way down the line, all that shit getting passed on one generation after another. It is so pointless, like our whole existence, I mean, having to go to work every day, having to make money, having to do something that really I’d rather I didn’t do. But we’ve got to pay the bills, buy food, we’ve got to be able to survive and what’s it all for, it’s just doing what our parents did, carrying on the good work. But what’s it all for, I mean seriously, what is it all for? Lately I’ve been having more of these sorts of thoughts, seeing the meaninglessness of our existence; I mean sure, if you want to work and enjoy doing it, why not, but still, what for - so you can get richer, do all the things you want to do, but what are you doing those things for, just entertaining yourself, and for what-
All to help you deny your bad feelings from what I can see.
Yes, I agree, and so all we do is to keep ourselves shut out from ourselves, doing all our meaningless and pointless things all so we can keep our repressed bad feelings hidden. And then we wonder why we get sick, why when we’re so stuffed full of bad feelings we’re rejecting suddenly we get sick and die of caner. Fuck we all should be riddled with cancer, none of us should be alive in our meaningless lives. And to think that I never questioned any of this Ann, that I just plodded along, thinking up all my business schemes thinking one day I’d have enough spare money to invest in doing them, set myself up in my own business, and what for. So I don’t have to be under someone else taking orders from them, is that all I was wanting to do it for. It sucks, now I feel what is the point, I mean, what really is the point. And I don’t know what to do. Less and less I want to go to work flogging my guts out so some other bastard can make all the money. More and more it’s all so pointless, I feel like I’m in crisis and I don’t know what to do about any of it, I just don’t know Ann.
Good Terry, because neither do I. And all we can do is keep expressing all our bad feelings and talking about it all like we are. There isn’t anything else, and that’s the only thing I think has any point.