Ann and Terry
I hate doing this, I hate doing this, I HATE DOING THIS! It makes me feel so bad, I hate it, hate it, hate it, I hate it, I never want to do it again, I never want to do the fucking vacuuming again, I hate it, I hate doing it, never want to do it again, no, I hate doing it, I can’t stand it, it’s a fucking moronic thing to do, I hate the fucking dust building up but I hate having to vacuum it even more. I hate it, I hate it, fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate doing the vacuuming, I HATE DOING THE FUCKING VACUUMING. I’ve never liked doing it, mum said she doesn’t mind doing it, she even said she likes doing it, but I hate it, I can’t stand it, I feel it’s just a moronic thing to do; every fucking week, you have to do the vacuuming, every fucking week on Fridays you do the vacuuming, must have it ready, the house all nice and clean for the weekend, and then you’ve got to give it another quick ‘wiz over’ on Mondays after everyone has mucked it up over the weekend.
I hate it, I hate it, it makes me feel bad, really bad, so bad, I’ve never felt so bad doing it as I do now, BUT FUCK I HATE IT! I can’t tell you Terry how much I fucking hate doing it.
Well don’t do it them.
Oh right, and so whose going to fucking do it - are you? And don’t tell me what to do Terry, it’s these bad feelings I want to get out and express and uncover the truth of, how many times do I have to tell you it’s not about stopping it because you tell me to, just so I don’t have to feel bad anymore; if I want to stop it, that’s what I want to feel, I want to be able to come to that decision myself through my bad feeling expression - through my feelings, and not just because you’re telling me I don’t have to. So shut up and stop telling me what you do. You’re taking my bad feelings away from me, and I don’t like that - they are my feelings!
Someone is always telling me what to fucking do. Do this Ann, do that Ann, you should get out more Ann and go for more walks, mum said the other day; and no, I don’t want to get out more and go for more walks, if I wanted to get out more and go for more walks I’d fucking get out more and go for more walks myself. Everyone, everywhere you go is always telling you what you should do, how you should be - don’t do that; no one just leaves you alone to be as you feel to be, free to do what you want to do when you want to do it.
I hate doing the fucking vacuuming Terry, it’s as if the dust or mum or society, but someone - you probably Terry, you the fucking man, is telling me that I have to do the fucking vacuuming because that’s what the woman is supposed to do, that’s all she’s good for anyway, keeping the fucking house clean. I mean for god’s sake, and so many women believe that shit with that being all they have in their lives, compulsively and possessively cleaning their house all the time; it’s their house, their domain and no one can mess it up. You can’t actually live in the fucking thing because, ‘don’t sit there, you’ll dirty the couch; take your shoes off before you come in, I don’t want the new carpet to get dirty; put your coffee cup on the coaster or it will leave a ring’, and on and on it goes, you feel like you can’t move for doing something bad and who wants to live that way, who wants to live in a fucking museum-gallery house or in a house that’s never to have a dirty mark in it for god’s sake.
And that was all how it was at home Terry, that’s how mum was when we were younger. She had the fucking ‘good mother’ image she had to uphold and show the whole world, and that image is not children-friendly, so what the fuck did she have us for. All of these things Terry that have been coming to light lately, all these feelings and their helping me to see how things really were; I mean, if you can’t have a house that’s completely there for the children to wreck if they want to, then what the fuck did you have children for.
If you want your house to remain the showpiece never looking untidy or unclean then you shouldn’t have fucking children. And I can I see - I can feel - how I’ve got all that shit in me too Terry, only I’m torn between rebelling against it, wanting to fuck it all off and doing it. Part of my thinks - believes - that I should have the perfectly clean house, and the queen could come over and find it spotless and faultless; and then the other part wants to fuck it all of. And as if I’d ever want the fucking queen to come over anyway, I don’t give a shit about all that bullshit Royalty, all that falseness, all that pomp and ceremony, and it’s because of that, trying to live some unreal fantasy standard that people like my fucking mother try so hard to impress everyone with their nice clean house. And yet who really are they trying to impress, fuck I feel so angry, it’s only the fucking neighbours, and the other women in the street who might drop in, who are invited in after the cleaning is done to show off the good works, as the men don’t give a fuck.
How long would it take you Terry before you did the vacuuming if I stopped doing it; how long would it take before you couldn’t bear the dust and did it?
I don’t know, a couple of months, I’ve never seen the point of having to do something that you hate every week, let alone every day like I’ve known some women to do. Fuck it off Ann, it’s all right with me, don’t do it at all, and let’s see, we’ll never know unless you stop doing it. And we can talk about all we’re feeling all the way along, and if we have to do something because we can’t bear it, then let’s do that.
Really Terry, are you serious?
Sure, why not, I’ve never gone more than about a month when I’ve lived alone, but usually the woman has done it, and mostly without complaint.
And you’ve never helped the women you’ve lived with to do it, or done it, taken it on yourself?
No.
And you feel all right about that?
Yes, I’ve always been the one working, supporting the woman, I’ve not lived with a working woman, that might be different, so I’ve just thought it’s fair that she does it... but now... give it up Ann and let’s see what happens.
All right Terry I will!
... Now I feel bad again, like I’m going to get into trouble... yes, that someone is going to come and punish me, yelling and screaming at me for not keeping my house clean. Yes I feel really scared, like something bad is going to happen... happen to me. Oh Terry I feel so bad, so bad, so much like I want to scream with the fear of what’s going to happen to me - to us, what will happen when people find out that we don’t vacuum and dust and do all those things you’re meant to do to keep it clean all the time.
I don’t care, they can say what they like.
No, it’s not about you Terry, whether you care or not although you can of course and must still say what you feel like saying, but it’s me, why do I have this fear now, and such a strong one, that I’m going to get severely punished.
What sort of punishment - do you know?
No, although... now this sounds weird... but yes... that I’m going to get sent to my bedroom.
So it’s your parents who are, or will, punish you?
Yes. And I can sense it’s mum, I can almost hear her saying ‘if you don’t clean up that mess you’ll be sent straight to your bedroom’. I can’t remember what mess she’s talking about, but I can remember that happening to me and her threatening me like that.
And how did you feel about that?
Scared, and angry, and... and now I feel very angry because I had to tidy and clean up my mess but the boys never did. They never had to, she would yell at them and threaten them to, but they always got away with it, and she’d just say things like ‘oh those brother’s of yours, honestly, you can’t tell them or make them do anything’. So they got away with it, but I didn’t, it wasn’t fair, I had to always clean up my messes. And then I had to help mum clean up the boys messes as well. Shit now that really pisses me off. They get away with it, but I can’t, and all because boys are meant to get away with it, they can do whatever they like; but not us girls, we have to be the neat and tidy ones, we have to not be like the boys - but why not! It’s not fair Terry, it’s not, and I feel very hurt now by it all. Yes, hurt, it’s not fair, they have it all how they want, they don’t have to do anything they don’t want to do, but not me, I have to do what I’m told like a ‘good girl’ and all for what... so the fucking man in my life will love me and appreciate me because I keep cleaning up after him and he can carry on just as he did when he was a boy. So I have to slave my guts out all for them, and all because I’m the woman, and especially as I don’t work.
The man is the hard worker, he needs to be looked after, he’s the poor one having to go off to work all day long, working oh so hard, all those corporate lunches and sitting around chatting all day long, whereas the woman has to stay at home slaving her guts out with no one but the dog or the television for company, even having to get her own lunch! And it’s all for him, all FOR THE BLOODY MAN. It’s as if he’s the king, the Lord of the Realm, and all we women are meant to do is clean and cook and let him fuck us. And then he wants a son and heir, so we have to have children and look after ‘his child’.
God Terry, listen to me, I sound like every woman morking on complaining about my lot, not happy with the man because he gets it all and I get nothing - I having to give it all and do it all for him. All for the fucking man. And yet I thought I was liberated and didn’t care about all of that anymore and wasn’t going to be with that sort of man anyway, and yet here I am speaking about it all. So it all must have still been in me, I’m still the same as all those women I’ve read about and heard complaining about men. Shit you can’t get away from it.
And how do you feel now about it all Ann?
Still VERY ANGRY! Why should it be that way, why Terry, just because men are physically stronger and can boss and dominate the woman; but we women do it for the men, do it all to please the fucking man, all so he’ll like and accept and appreciate and want - all so HE WILL WANT US, and all because we have nothing and feel so unwanted.
Yes Terry, and I can feel that in me, that I do feel unwanted.
But I want you.
Do you Terry, do you really? You’re a man, so how do you really know, and what do you want me for, for myself or my body, and I can’t trust you, and I don’t think you really know, and I don’t care about you anyway, because I want to keep expressing these bad feelings now of my feeling so unwanted.
I do, I really do, I can feel it. Who does want me... fuck me Terry, I’ve never had to think about and deal with this... who does want me... and I don’t feel anyone does. Do I think I feel mum and dad want me?... no, no, I don’t. I don’t think they really want me, I’m just the girl. I can see, which I’ve never really said anything about before, that mum and dad did both favour in slight ways the boys, they were more important than me and my sisters. Yes, and now that I’ve said it I can see it even more. The boys got away with murder, they could do anything they wanted, but not us girls, we had to be ‘girls’ and ‘girls’ are meant to be very well behaved, not like the boys who are meant to be boys.
Shit it’s so unfair feeling like you’re a second class citizen, and just because I am a girl. To be the boy you have it all, the world is for you and even though women seem to be more liberated and with all the feminism stuff, I can see that really at best they are just trying to like the boys, they are not actually trying to be like true women, and loved and appreciated - by men - for being that way.
All those go-get-it women, being so bloody bossy and so officious wanting to get on and prove they can do it, they are as good as, if not better than, the men. God they give me the shits those women because they are so aggressive, so hostile, and always sucking up to the men but at the same time criticising and saying how slack the men are. And then when they get into the top position, still all it takes is for a man to say you don’t look good in that new red outfit, it doesn’t suit you, and they’d be crushed. It’s all so false so much of it, and then to try and shut men out altogether like we don’t need them, so we can all be lesbians or something, it’s still not right, it’s just making clubs, and we don’t let men into our club, but we need each other, look at us Terry, how it’s becoming with us, how we need each other, the man and woman to interact and all the shit that comes up between us about how we are and how our relationship is, you can’t do that with someone of your same sex.
And men and women aren’t meant to be separate, nor are they meant to always be competing with each other for power. And yet what are we women to do, when all you feel deep in your core is powerless, a worthless shit, and that really no one loves you or wants you and that your ugly and too fat or too thin and it’s all because you believe you’re not acceptable to the man.
Not acceptable to your fathers.
Yes, that’s right, that’s what I was just about to say. I can see it all hinges around dad. He only has to disapprove of me in the slightest way and I am crushed, so all I do is to try and keep him approving of me, keeping him liking me... oh god I see it more clearly now, that’s all I do. And it’s the same with you Terry. Most of what I do with you is still so that you’ll think well of me, will approve of me and not tell me to fuck off; because if you did, then what would I do, where would I go, and I can’t bear to think about that. But at least while you are allowing me to talk and express all I feel about such things, I can feel myself changing and getting stronger within myself, I do feel slowly better about myself.
So how are you feeling now Ann?
Terry I still feel very bad, very bad, there’s more, I can feel it deeper within me... something about being responsible, yes, that’s it, that I - being the woman - have to be responsible for everything... no, that’s not quite it... what is it-
Long for the truth.
I am... yes, that I’m responsible, responsible for everyone, yes, I think that’s it... yes, yes it is, that I am the one, and all because I’m the woman, that has to be and is meant to be and should be - and just is - responsible for everyone else feeling good. That it’s all up to me, like I’m the one in the family that has to make sure everyone else is feeling good.
I know mum has a lot of that in her, I can see that, I’ve been aware of that, and really a lot of that is put on mothers, but why not on the fathers as well, it should of course be an equal partnership, but it’s such a heavy burden, to be the one who has to make everyone else feel good.
Yes, that’s it Terry, I’ve got the nice feeling, you know the one when you get to the truth of it, when you say it and it sounds just right.
Yeah.
That’s it, that I’m to make everyone else be happy, and shit what a fucking awful weight to be under. What a fucking burden to carry. That everyone else’s wellbeing hinges on me; that in some way I’m meant to even have the power to do it - shit that is totally new to me. That I am meant to have the power to make everyone happy, and even as if I somehow have it, like we women somehow have it and we’re meant to make sure the kids and our husbands and partners - the man - is happy, and that they all have a great happy and successful life. And I mean, how absurd, but that’s how I feel. How could I have that power anyway, you’d have to think I was Superwoman or something, but not in the physical department like Superman, but in the feelings and emotions, that I am meant to take everyones bad feelings away, including my own, see to it that they never have bad feelings at all, and that we all only have good families. Shit what a demand for the mother to have put on her. But I think that’s what a lot of mothers do think, that they have to be the ones who make the whole family thing happen, work right, for everyone to be happy. The man makes the money so all those practical needs are taken care of, but the woman has to take care of all the emotional needs; and you know Terry, I don’t think I can do it, I mean, what happens if I feel bad, who’s going to take care of me?
Oh shit what a burden to have to carry, it’s so difficult, and then for those working mothers to go out and earn the living as well, shit it’s a wonder more women don’t breakdown and just give up.
But they can’t, can they, because as you said, who’d do all the looking after.
Yes, that’s right, we can’t, we’ve got to keep going, never be sick, never feel bad, never be the one everyone else has to look after, never be the one who can put their feet up and have it all taken care of... And shit Terry, you know I’ve just had a huge insight: that it is this way, all because we don’t all naturally express all we feel. Because if we did all the time, then we’d all be looking after each other, just naturally, as we looked after ourselves. Hey, I like that, so it’s not real or true, and definitely not fair, that the woman does it all, and I have always wondered about that, was she meant to, was it actually what a woman was meant to do, her being the mother. But now I see that, no, she only has to take care of herself, and everyone can take care of themselves; and how we take care of ourselves, is simply as we’re trying to do, by accepting and expressing all our feelings as we seek the truth of them. And if we all were to live like that, then no one would be doing more than anyone else, no one would be doing it all for everyone else, no one would feel like a slave, no one would feel under the other, because no one would have all the power. The man wouldn’t need the women to look after him because he’d be able to look after himself, and now I can see that we women do some of it to ourselves, we gain power, or so we think we do, by making the man believe and then as mothers making our son feel they can’t look after themselves and that only their mother can; and they need their mothers to do all of that for them, so they demand it, because we’ve made them be that way, taking their own power to look after themselves by expressing their feelings, away from them.
Oh god now I feel like we women are the bad ones, we’ve done it to our sons, and so how else are they to be, what do we expect, if we make them dependent on us, on the woman, then they demand that we do look after them. Oh fuck it’s all such a fucking mess, I don’t know, I feel all mixed up in my mind again.
But still Terry, that might be as it is, but the men then don’t have to demand it’s their right that the women should look after them; and the man can strive, like you are doing Terry, to look after himself, by being able to express all his feelings and see what they show him about his life. And they should show him how dependent on women he is, on his mother, because she made him be, and then resent that and hate her for it, and oh god it doesn’t matter which way you go in it all, we are all going to end up hating our parents.
Yeah I know, that’s what I’m coming to realise more and more. You think you love them, but that’s only because you’ve blocked out and keep blocking out all the bad stuff, like all this stuff you’ve been talking about. And as you say, when you strip it all back, what are you left with, what’s the bottom line, and it’s not good. So I can see how we all keep putting up the love-front, we all have to because what would happen if we stopped, we’d all see the truth and hate each other, hate our parents, with all that love we thought we felt for them counting for nothing.
Yeah it’s fucking terrible and I still feel at times like I don’t want to keep going with it, because it’s only going to get worse, we’re only going to see just how badly we were treated by our parents, and all what we call love will probably just fade away because it was all false. Or the love feelings might have been real, but they were based on falseness, so once that’s removed, you’ve got nothing good left.
I know Terry, but we can’t stop, we have to keep going because we can’t go back, that much I’ve realised lately about myself. I can’t at any rate, I don’t know about you Terry, but I can’t go back to how I was. And more each day as I’m waking up to the truth of myself, I’m coming to see that really I don’t like how I was, and I like how I’m becoming much better. But I still feel like I’ve got a very long way to go, so I guess there is still a shit-load of bad feelings still repressed in me, and if they all come to the surface and I can see the truth of them, then that will not bode well for my relationships with mum and dad... with anyone for that matter, not even with myself.
But doesn’t that scare you Ann, or make you feel bad in some way?
No, as I know there is nothing I can do about it anyway. And as I’ve now seen that I enjoy working on myself like this even though I feel bad a lot of the time; and because I feel I am making headway in changing myself into a better person, I want to press on. I want to see what happens, I mean, what will be the end of it all, how will I be, what will I be like and what will I be thinking and feeling then. Do you ever think about that Terry, what sort of person you want to be?
No... oh, in some way I guess I do, but I don’t dwell on it. I just trust that the more of my yuk I bring up out of myself the better sort of person I will be - more loving. Yes, that’s what I’d like to be. A loving person. I used to think that I was, but that too is changing, with all that’s coming up in me showing me I’m not as loving as I thought I was. And how can I be when I’ve not been loved fully by my parents. I’m slowly accepting more that I’m how they are, which is as it is, I mean it sounds daft to say it, but I always thought I was something else, and even better in many ways than they were. But now I’m seeing that we’re the same, and how can I be anything else when I am of and from them - I am their product, their child, so they’ve made me be as I am, so I am as they are, it can’t be any other way. So as I uncover more of the truth about myself, so too can I see it’s the truth of them - it’s all incredible really; and the most incredible part about it all, was this sort of stuff, all about feelings and the family was the last thing I thought I’d be interested in life. I wanted to only be interested in and do business, but less and less am I thinking about and trying to dream up ways to make money, and more and more thinking about how I’m feeling and stuff we talk about. And I would have thought that I’d feel scared of giving up all my business ideas, and even my drive to get on and make a real success of myself, but I don’t, and I don’t even care that much about all that sort of stuff anymore.
I’m beginning to see that there is more to life than just making - or trying to make - money. And what do I want to do, never work on myself continuing to deny all my pain and bad feelings but make lots of money and have a big house and... Na, I’m beginning to think that in fact it’s not me, I’m not a great business man type, that’s all been fantasy.
If you were Terry, you’d just be doing it. It is about owning up to your limitations and accepting just how you are.
Yes it is, that much I’m being able to see more clearly. And as I’ve said, I’m enjoying it more with you Ann, our talking about all like this - about life, and not me just off thinking about all my business fantasy stuff, alone in my own head. I like being with a real person talking about real things - like our feelings.
Yes, me too Terry.
I hate doing this, I hate doing this, I HATE DOING THIS! It makes me feel so bad, I hate it, hate it, hate it, I hate it, I never want to do it again, I never want to do the fucking vacuuming again, I hate it, I hate doing it, never want to do it again, no, I hate doing it, I can’t stand it, it’s a fucking moronic thing to do, I hate the fucking dust building up but I hate having to vacuum it even more. I hate it, I hate it, fuck, fuck, fuck, I hate doing the vacuuming, I HATE DOING THE FUCKING VACUUMING. I’ve never liked doing it, mum said she doesn’t mind doing it, she even said she likes doing it, but I hate it, I can’t stand it, I feel it’s just a moronic thing to do; every fucking week, you have to do the vacuuming, every fucking week on Fridays you do the vacuuming, must have it ready, the house all nice and clean for the weekend, and then you’ve got to give it another quick ‘wiz over’ on Mondays after everyone has mucked it up over the weekend.
I hate it, I hate it, it makes me feel bad, really bad, so bad, I’ve never felt so bad doing it as I do now, BUT FUCK I HATE IT! I can’t tell you Terry how much I fucking hate doing it.
Well don’t do it them.
Oh right, and so whose going to fucking do it - are you? And don’t tell me what to do Terry, it’s these bad feelings I want to get out and express and uncover the truth of, how many times do I have to tell you it’s not about stopping it because you tell me to, just so I don’t have to feel bad anymore; if I want to stop it, that’s what I want to feel, I want to be able to come to that decision myself through my bad feeling expression - through my feelings, and not just because you’re telling me I don’t have to. So shut up and stop telling me what you do. You’re taking my bad feelings away from me, and I don’t like that - they are my feelings!
Someone is always telling me what to fucking do. Do this Ann, do that Ann, you should get out more Ann and go for more walks, mum said the other day; and no, I don’t want to get out more and go for more walks, if I wanted to get out more and go for more walks I’d fucking get out more and go for more walks myself. Everyone, everywhere you go is always telling you what you should do, how you should be - don’t do that; no one just leaves you alone to be as you feel to be, free to do what you want to do when you want to do it.
I hate doing the fucking vacuuming Terry, it’s as if the dust or mum or society, but someone - you probably Terry, you the fucking man, is telling me that I have to do the fucking vacuuming because that’s what the woman is supposed to do, that’s all she’s good for anyway, keeping the fucking house clean. I mean for god’s sake, and so many women believe that shit with that being all they have in their lives, compulsively and possessively cleaning their house all the time; it’s their house, their domain and no one can mess it up. You can’t actually live in the fucking thing because, ‘don’t sit there, you’ll dirty the couch; take your shoes off before you come in, I don’t want the new carpet to get dirty; put your coffee cup on the coaster or it will leave a ring’, and on and on it goes, you feel like you can’t move for doing something bad and who wants to live that way, who wants to live in a fucking museum-gallery house or in a house that’s never to have a dirty mark in it for god’s sake.
And that was all how it was at home Terry, that’s how mum was when we were younger. She had the fucking ‘good mother’ image she had to uphold and show the whole world, and that image is not children-friendly, so what the fuck did she have us for. All of these things Terry that have been coming to light lately, all these feelings and their helping me to see how things really were; I mean, if you can’t have a house that’s completely there for the children to wreck if they want to, then what the fuck did you have children for.
If you want your house to remain the showpiece never looking untidy or unclean then you shouldn’t have fucking children. And I can I see - I can feel - how I’ve got all that shit in me too Terry, only I’m torn between rebelling against it, wanting to fuck it all off and doing it. Part of my thinks - believes - that I should have the perfectly clean house, and the queen could come over and find it spotless and faultless; and then the other part wants to fuck it all of. And as if I’d ever want the fucking queen to come over anyway, I don’t give a shit about all that bullshit Royalty, all that falseness, all that pomp and ceremony, and it’s because of that, trying to live some unreal fantasy standard that people like my fucking mother try so hard to impress everyone with their nice clean house. And yet who really are they trying to impress, fuck I feel so angry, it’s only the fucking neighbours, and the other women in the street who might drop in, who are invited in after the cleaning is done to show off the good works, as the men don’t give a fuck.
How long would it take you Terry before you did the vacuuming if I stopped doing it; how long would it take before you couldn’t bear the dust and did it?
I don’t know, a couple of months, I’ve never seen the point of having to do something that you hate every week, let alone every day like I’ve known some women to do. Fuck it off Ann, it’s all right with me, don’t do it at all, and let’s see, we’ll never know unless you stop doing it. And we can talk about all we’re feeling all the way along, and if we have to do something because we can’t bear it, then let’s do that.
Really Terry, are you serious?
Sure, why not, I’ve never gone more than about a month when I’ve lived alone, but usually the woman has done it, and mostly without complaint.
And you’ve never helped the women you’ve lived with to do it, or done it, taken it on yourself?
No.
And you feel all right about that?
Yes, I’ve always been the one working, supporting the woman, I’ve not lived with a working woman, that might be different, so I’ve just thought it’s fair that she does it... but now... give it up Ann and let’s see what happens.
All right Terry I will!
... Now I feel bad again, like I’m going to get into trouble... yes, that someone is going to come and punish me, yelling and screaming at me for not keeping my house clean. Yes I feel really scared, like something bad is going to happen... happen to me. Oh Terry I feel so bad, so bad, so much like I want to scream with the fear of what’s going to happen to me - to us, what will happen when people find out that we don’t vacuum and dust and do all those things you’re meant to do to keep it clean all the time.
I don’t care, they can say what they like.
No, it’s not about you Terry, whether you care or not although you can of course and must still say what you feel like saying, but it’s me, why do I have this fear now, and such a strong one, that I’m going to get severely punished.
What sort of punishment - do you know?
No, although... now this sounds weird... but yes... that I’m going to get sent to my bedroom.
So it’s your parents who are, or will, punish you?
Yes. And I can sense it’s mum, I can almost hear her saying ‘if you don’t clean up that mess you’ll be sent straight to your bedroom’. I can’t remember what mess she’s talking about, but I can remember that happening to me and her threatening me like that.
And how did you feel about that?
Scared, and angry, and... and now I feel very angry because I had to tidy and clean up my mess but the boys never did. They never had to, she would yell at them and threaten them to, but they always got away with it, and she’d just say things like ‘oh those brother’s of yours, honestly, you can’t tell them or make them do anything’. So they got away with it, but I didn’t, it wasn’t fair, I had to always clean up my messes. And then I had to help mum clean up the boys messes as well. Shit now that really pisses me off. They get away with it, but I can’t, and all because boys are meant to get away with it, they can do whatever they like; but not us girls, we have to be the neat and tidy ones, we have to not be like the boys - but why not! It’s not fair Terry, it’s not, and I feel very hurt now by it all. Yes, hurt, it’s not fair, they have it all how they want, they don’t have to do anything they don’t want to do, but not me, I have to do what I’m told like a ‘good girl’ and all for what... so the fucking man in my life will love me and appreciate me because I keep cleaning up after him and he can carry on just as he did when he was a boy. So I have to slave my guts out all for them, and all because I’m the woman, and especially as I don’t work.
The man is the hard worker, he needs to be looked after, he’s the poor one having to go off to work all day long, working oh so hard, all those corporate lunches and sitting around chatting all day long, whereas the woman has to stay at home slaving her guts out with no one but the dog or the television for company, even having to get her own lunch! And it’s all for him, all FOR THE BLOODY MAN. It’s as if he’s the king, the Lord of the Realm, and all we women are meant to do is clean and cook and let him fuck us. And then he wants a son and heir, so we have to have children and look after ‘his child’.
God Terry, listen to me, I sound like every woman morking on complaining about my lot, not happy with the man because he gets it all and I get nothing - I having to give it all and do it all for him. All for the fucking man. And yet I thought I was liberated and didn’t care about all of that anymore and wasn’t going to be with that sort of man anyway, and yet here I am speaking about it all. So it all must have still been in me, I’m still the same as all those women I’ve read about and heard complaining about men. Shit you can’t get away from it.
And how do you feel now about it all Ann?
Still VERY ANGRY! Why should it be that way, why Terry, just because men are physically stronger and can boss and dominate the woman; but we women do it for the men, do it all to please the fucking man, all so he’ll like and accept and appreciate and want - all so HE WILL WANT US, and all because we have nothing and feel so unwanted.
Yes Terry, and I can feel that in me, that I do feel unwanted.
But I want you.
Do you Terry, do you really? You’re a man, so how do you really know, and what do you want me for, for myself or my body, and I can’t trust you, and I don’t think you really know, and I don’t care about you anyway, because I want to keep expressing these bad feelings now of my feeling so unwanted.
I do, I really do, I can feel it. Who does want me... fuck me Terry, I’ve never had to think about and deal with this... who does want me... and I don’t feel anyone does. Do I think I feel mum and dad want me?... no, no, I don’t. I don’t think they really want me, I’m just the girl. I can see, which I’ve never really said anything about before, that mum and dad did both favour in slight ways the boys, they were more important than me and my sisters. Yes, and now that I’ve said it I can see it even more. The boys got away with murder, they could do anything they wanted, but not us girls, we had to be ‘girls’ and ‘girls’ are meant to be very well behaved, not like the boys who are meant to be boys.
Shit it’s so unfair feeling like you’re a second class citizen, and just because I am a girl. To be the boy you have it all, the world is for you and even though women seem to be more liberated and with all the feminism stuff, I can see that really at best they are just trying to like the boys, they are not actually trying to be like true women, and loved and appreciated - by men - for being that way.
All those go-get-it women, being so bloody bossy and so officious wanting to get on and prove they can do it, they are as good as, if not better than, the men. God they give me the shits those women because they are so aggressive, so hostile, and always sucking up to the men but at the same time criticising and saying how slack the men are. And then when they get into the top position, still all it takes is for a man to say you don’t look good in that new red outfit, it doesn’t suit you, and they’d be crushed. It’s all so false so much of it, and then to try and shut men out altogether like we don’t need them, so we can all be lesbians or something, it’s still not right, it’s just making clubs, and we don’t let men into our club, but we need each other, look at us Terry, how it’s becoming with us, how we need each other, the man and woman to interact and all the shit that comes up between us about how we are and how our relationship is, you can’t do that with someone of your same sex.
And men and women aren’t meant to be separate, nor are they meant to always be competing with each other for power. And yet what are we women to do, when all you feel deep in your core is powerless, a worthless shit, and that really no one loves you or wants you and that your ugly and too fat or too thin and it’s all because you believe you’re not acceptable to the man.
Not acceptable to your fathers.
Yes, that’s right, that’s what I was just about to say. I can see it all hinges around dad. He only has to disapprove of me in the slightest way and I am crushed, so all I do is to try and keep him approving of me, keeping him liking me... oh god I see it more clearly now, that’s all I do. And it’s the same with you Terry. Most of what I do with you is still so that you’ll think well of me, will approve of me and not tell me to fuck off; because if you did, then what would I do, where would I go, and I can’t bear to think about that. But at least while you are allowing me to talk and express all I feel about such things, I can feel myself changing and getting stronger within myself, I do feel slowly better about myself.
So how are you feeling now Ann?
Terry I still feel very bad, very bad, there’s more, I can feel it deeper within me... something about being responsible, yes, that’s it, that I - being the woman - have to be responsible for everything... no, that’s not quite it... what is it-
Long for the truth.
I am... yes, that I’m responsible, responsible for everyone, yes, I think that’s it... yes, yes it is, that I am the one, and all because I’m the woman, that has to be and is meant to be and should be - and just is - responsible for everyone else feeling good. That it’s all up to me, like I’m the one in the family that has to make sure everyone else is feeling good.
I know mum has a lot of that in her, I can see that, I’ve been aware of that, and really a lot of that is put on mothers, but why not on the fathers as well, it should of course be an equal partnership, but it’s such a heavy burden, to be the one who has to make everyone else feel good.
Yes, that’s it Terry, I’ve got the nice feeling, you know the one when you get to the truth of it, when you say it and it sounds just right.
Yeah.
That’s it, that I’m to make everyone else be happy, and shit what a fucking awful weight to be under. What a fucking burden to carry. That everyone else’s wellbeing hinges on me; that in some way I’m meant to even have the power to do it - shit that is totally new to me. That I am meant to have the power to make everyone happy, and even as if I somehow have it, like we women somehow have it and we’re meant to make sure the kids and our husbands and partners - the man - is happy, and that they all have a great happy and successful life. And I mean, how absurd, but that’s how I feel. How could I have that power anyway, you’d have to think I was Superwoman or something, but not in the physical department like Superman, but in the feelings and emotions, that I am meant to take everyones bad feelings away, including my own, see to it that they never have bad feelings at all, and that we all only have good families. Shit what a demand for the mother to have put on her. But I think that’s what a lot of mothers do think, that they have to be the ones who make the whole family thing happen, work right, for everyone to be happy. The man makes the money so all those practical needs are taken care of, but the woman has to take care of all the emotional needs; and you know Terry, I don’t think I can do it, I mean, what happens if I feel bad, who’s going to take care of me?
Oh shit what a burden to have to carry, it’s so difficult, and then for those working mothers to go out and earn the living as well, shit it’s a wonder more women don’t breakdown and just give up.
But they can’t, can they, because as you said, who’d do all the looking after.
Yes, that’s right, we can’t, we’ve got to keep going, never be sick, never feel bad, never be the one everyone else has to look after, never be the one who can put their feet up and have it all taken care of... And shit Terry, you know I’ve just had a huge insight: that it is this way, all because we don’t all naturally express all we feel. Because if we did all the time, then we’d all be looking after each other, just naturally, as we looked after ourselves. Hey, I like that, so it’s not real or true, and definitely not fair, that the woman does it all, and I have always wondered about that, was she meant to, was it actually what a woman was meant to do, her being the mother. But now I see that, no, she only has to take care of herself, and everyone can take care of themselves; and how we take care of ourselves, is simply as we’re trying to do, by accepting and expressing all our feelings as we seek the truth of them. And if we all were to live like that, then no one would be doing more than anyone else, no one would be doing it all for everyone else, no one would feel like a slave, no one would feel under the other, because no one would have all the power. The man wouldn’t need the women to look after him because he’d be able to look after himself, and now I can see that we women do some of it to ourselves, we gain power, or so we think we do, by making the man believe and then as mothers making our son feel they can’t look after themselves and that only their mother can; and they need their mothers to do all of that for them, so they demand it, because we’ve made them be that way, taking their own power to look after themselves by expressing their feelings, away from them.
Oh god now I feel like we women are the bad ones, we’ve done it to our sons, and so how else are they to be, what do we expect, if we make them dependent on us, on the woman, then they demand that we do look after them. Oh fuck it’s all such a fucking mess, I don’t know, I feel all mixed up in my mind again.
But still Terry, that might be as it is, but the men then don’t have to demand it’s their right that the women should look after them; and the man can strive, like you are doing Terry, to look after himself, by being able to express all his feelings and see what they show him about his life. And they should show him how dependent on women he is, on his mother, because she made him be, and then resent that and hate her for it, and oh god it doesn’t matter which way you go in it all, we are all going to end up hating our parents.
Yeah I know, that’s what I’m coming to realise more and more. You think you love them, but that’s only because you’ve blocked out and keep blocking out all the bad stuff, like all this stuff you’ve been talking about. And as you say, when you strip it all back, what are you left with, what’s the bottom line, and it’s not good. So I can see how we all keep putting up the love-front, we all have to because what would happen if we stopped, we’d all see the truth and hate each other, hate our parents, with all that love we thought we felt for them counting for nothing.
Yeah it’s fucking terrible and I still feel at times like I don’t want to keep going with it, because it’s only going to get worse, we’re only going to see just how badly we were treated by our parents, and all what we call love will probably just fade away because it was all false. Or the love feelings might have been real, but they were based on falseness, so once that’s removed, you’ve got nothing good left.
I know Terry, but we can’t stop, we have to keep going because we can’t go back, that much I’ve realised lately about myself. I can’t at any rate, I don’t know about you Terry, but I can’t go back to how I was. And more each day as I’m waking up to the truth of myself, I’m coming to see that really I don’t like how I was, and I like how I’m becoming much better. But I still feel like I’ve got a very long way to go, so I guess there is still a shit-load of bad feelings still repressed in me, and if they all come to the surface and I can see the truth of them, then that will not bode well for my relationships with mum and dad... with anyone for that matter, not even with myself.
But doesn’t that scare you Ann, or make you feel bad in some way?
No, as I know there is nothing I can do about it anyway. And as I’ve now seen that I enjoy working on myself like this even though I feel bad a lot of the time; and because I feel I am making headway in changing myself into a better person, I want to press on. I want to see what happens, I mean, what will be the end of it all, how will I be, what will I be like and what will I be thinking and feeling then. Do you ever think about that Terry, what sort of person you want to be?
No... oh, in some way I guess I do, but I don’t dwell on it. I just trust that the more of my yuk I bring up out of myself the better sort of person I will be - more loving. Yes, that’s what I’d like to be. A loving person. I used to think that I was, but that too is changing, with all that’s coming up in me showing me I’m not as loving as I thought I was. And how can I be when I’ve not been loved fully by my parents. I’m slowly accepting more that I’m how they are, which is as it is, I mean it sounds daft to say it, but I always thought I was something else, and even better in many ways than they were. But now I’m seeing that we’re the same, and how can I be anything else when I am of and from them - I am their product, their child, so they’ve made me be as I am, so I am as they are, it can’t be any other way. So as I uncover more of the truth about myself, so too can I see it’s the truth of them - it’s all incredible really; and the most incredible part about it all, was this sort of stuff, all about feelings and the family was the last thing I thought I’d be interested in life. I wanted to only be interested in and do business, but less and less am I thinking about and trying to dream up ways to make money, and more and more thinking about how I’m feeling and stuff we talk about. And I would have thought that I’d feel scared of giving up all my business ideas, and even my drive to get on and make a real success of myself, but I don’t, and I don’t even care that much about all that sort of stuff anymore.
I’m beginning to see that there is more to life than just making - or trying to make - money. And what do I want to do, never work on myself continuing to deny all my pain and bad feelings but make lots of money and have a big house and... Na, I’m beginning to think that in fact it’s not me, I’m not a great business man type, that’s all been fantasy.
If you were Terry, you’d just be doing it. It is about owning up to your limitations and accepting just how you are.
Yes it is, that much I’m being able to see more clearly. And as I’ve said, I’m enjoying it more with you Ann, our talking about all like this - about life, and not me just off thinking about all my business fantasy stuff, alone in my own head. I like being with a real person talking about real things - like our feelings.
Yes, me too Terry.