Terry, what really is the point of it all?
What do you mean, of life?
Yes, of our existence, and of our being in our negative states like we are. I mean, it’s all so vile, so much suffering, everything you read is filled with pain, no one it seems to me is really happy, and we’re all limping along trying to keep our heads above water, but it’s all so shocking. Like all these innocent bears that HSI have written to us about, how they are kept in such small cages, even having to lie on their backs their whole lives as the bile and stomach fluids are milked twice a day from them. They are cut open suffering great pain, then have to live with a hose sticking out of them, they are maimed when captured and half starved to keep the bile levels up, and there are thousands of them. Do you mind if we send them some more money?
Good, and thank you for doing that. I just can’t stand it, to know that such animals are suffering so much, and that people don’t care about them; and now knowing as we do, it’s all only because those people are suffering themselves so much. They are suffering as much inside as the poor bears are suffering as you can only be and do what’s happened to you, and so they are subjecting those innocent powerless bears to their money making schemes all so they can feel more powerful within themselves. But if they were loved properly to begin with then they’d not feel powerless and so would not need to try and gain power over anything. It’s all so terrible, such a shame. So what is the point of it all, why all the suffering?
I think you’ll have to ask God that one, that is a bit beyond me at the moment.
And so why is God allowing us to do it, and even making us do it, as He’s surely in control of everything. I can’t see that He creates us and then lets us go out on our own to fuck up and control and make everyone and everything suffer to our hearts content; and He’s unable to do anything about it and it’s totally up to us to do it. No, that doesn’t make any sense, so He’s doing it all, but what for?
And Terry, I’ve been thinking more about evil, about what it is and how we are evil, and that really it all seems to me like we’re trying to take over from God all the time. We’re saying to Him, we know better, we can do it ourselves and better than you can. I mean, look at nature, look at how perfect and all-loving it is. Now, look at those two beautiful rosellas down there trying to have their baths in the dish. I mean, have you ever seen anything so beautiful; and now look, look how they are both in the dish together, flapping away spraying each other with water. That was a bloody good idea of yours Terry to provide those baths for the birds, and how much they all love having baths, I had no idea. Nearly every day we see the same birds coming and having their bath, they’re cleaner than us Terry, we don’t even have a shower every day anymore.
So what’s the point, and something that’s so beautiful as those two - and funny how they both seem to be boys, and yet we think nothing of chopping their nesting trees down and all the trees they need to get food from. It’s all so thoughtless, so heartless how we are, all so we can make money on our land, putting up our ugly houses, when really I think we should be going the other way and planting more trees and chopping down all the houses.
So we believe that we’re better than God, or if not better, as good as. And you know, that’s what I think all that Eastern spiritual stuff and all that positive mind stuff I used to be interested in is really all about. All that meditation and saying mantras, all trying to ‘raise your vibration’ all so you can supposedly become... what... God?
To become at-one with God, isn’t it?
Yes, but in what way, through your feelings or through your mind? You and me Terry, we’re not trying to compete with God, we’re just trying to live true to our feelings, and so if God has created us all and created me to have all the feelings I have, then surely if I am living true to them, then I’m living as God wants me to live. Then I’ll be living God’s will so to speak, and surely that’s living at-one with God the right way around. And then I will just remain me, like I’m a child of God as Jesus said, and I’m not trying to use my power to gain the ultimate power and becoming at one with God the mind way by believing you are God, or so at-one with God that you may as well be God. To become merged with or part of God’s mind or whatever it is they think they are doing, all so you can bliss out in your nirvana state, being all-knowing and the Great One of all. That to me now just seems like where we are all trying to get to, all trying to have more and more power, more and more control all so we can become gods, which is what the New Age and New Thought stuff is all about.
You know Terry how it is: ‘empower your mind’, ‘you can achieve what you want - anything’, ‘be all-loving, think love and you ARE love’, but how can you do that. I certainly couldn’t. And so if we say to ourselves every day a million times over, ‘I am love, I am love, I am love, I am love, I am all-powerful, I am all-powerful’, then we’ll become those things. That’s just brainwashing yourself, and that’s exactly what was done to us when we were young. Don’t do that, don’t do that, don’t do that, stop doing that, stop doing that, stop doing that, don’t touch that, don’t touch that, don’t touch that, and on and on, and so no wonder we all end up bloody unfeeling hopeless wrecks, needing to take all the drugs we do and do all the things we have to do to keep propping ourselves up and telling ourselves we’re okay.
And I mean, god, now thinking about it, seriously, to have to keep saying I am loving, I am love all day long is really rather poor, pathetic if you ask me. And why aren’t you just all-loving and love already. God it’s obvious that’s how we’re made, just like nature, all-loving, and if we were left to it, we’d still be all-loving and fine how we are, but because we’re so heavily interfered with by our so-called loving parents who don’t actually love us at all, then we too become unloving and not of love. And if we were of love I don’t think positive thinking would ever have been invented because we’d not need it being so positive within ourselves about ourselves.
So Terry, I’ve decided all of that stuff is rubbish, it’s just mind garbage and really it’s all so controlling. So I am glad that I couldn’t do it anyway, I much prefer being how I am now, fucked and all as I am. I don’t want be thinking that I’m god, or better than God, I just want to be as I am, as God has created me to be. And okay, I can accept that He wants me to currently be the fucked person I am, I don’t understand that, and mostly I’m not happy with it, but as there is nothing I can do about anyway, so I accept that. And I trust that one day I might find out what it’s all for and what it’s all about; but in the meantime I at least now know that I can work on myself with your help and try and heal myself of being evil. So, how does that all sound?
You astound me Ann, where does it all come from? I go out to work slaving away all day driving for miles about our beautiful countryside having hardly a thought being focused on the work I have to do, and you stay at home reading and writing and thinking and feeling, all so when I get home you are full of astounding revelation - you are our spiritual leader that’s for sure!
Yes, well Terry as we read, women are the true spiritual leaders, so I’m just doing what I’m meant to be doing!
So you’re leading us to God now, is that it?
Yes, and why not, and isn’t that what’s it’s all about?
I don’t know, I don’t know what anything is all about, other than my having to fix myself through my healing.
Aren’t you interested in God, in what’s good and what’s evil?
Yes, in what’s good and evil sure, as that’s what my healing is all about, but as to God, as in like God being up there somewhere in heaven, no, not much. I can accept that there is someone who has possibly created all of us and everything, but I don’t know, I don’t feel the need to understand more about who or what God is. And I figure, like how it’s been with everything else, if I’m meant to, then I will feel to and somehow it will come about.
Like my bringing it up and getting you thinking more about it?
Yes, quite possibly. I can accept that. So, okay, as of now, I will start thinking more about God. Right. So... so Ann, who or what do you think God is anyway?
Well, to me God is up there somewhere in heaven if that’s what you want to call it. I don’t know what it is, and I fully accept there is an afterlife and all those people having Near Death Experiences are somehow going to heaven or the spirit worlds and getting a glimpse of them. But as to God being a person, like an old man with a big beard sitting up there and we can all meet him and sit next to him or whatever it is we do when we die, that I think is just a little child’s storybook way of seeing God.
No, I will tell you Terry how I feel about God based on my feelings. I feel God is my loving Father in Heaven or wherever God is. And in fact, why not even take it further and God is my loving Parents, a Mother and Father - and my true Parents; They being the Ones who have created me and are putting me through all of this. Yes, that feels right. Like they are one soul, you know, like soul-mates; and as with soul-mates, so have two distinct personalities - A Heavenly Mother and Heavenly Father who are of the same one Soul. And so I can look to Them both, for I am Their child as we all are, and that feels good too. And so, if They are real and do exist, then possibly and even surely I can get to know Them just as I imagine They are getting to know me, just as with any parent/child relationship. And so the more I grow up spiritually or grow in truth, so the more I can get to know who my real Parents are - the Parents of my soul. How’s that?
Shit Ann, that sounds bloody good to me. All right, I’ll go along with that, I like that and it feels good. Fuck all that religious shit off, this is much more straightforward and simpler to handle. Good, so please continue - OH GREAT WISE ONE! Jeez I won’t have to be trekking up into the Himalayas trying to find some monk who can fill me in on all the wisdom of God, I’ve got you!
Yes you do Terry, and see, I’m not just a pretty face after all! See, I have some real depth, and this healing of myself is working a lot of change in me, and so much so, that I can even marvel at what comes out of my own mouth, because up until I said that, I’d not really thought it through.
So, now I will continue.
Right, where was I... oh yes... So, so Terry, if that is how it is, and let’s say for the sake of argument it is, then really what it’s all about with God is our having a relationship with Them, just as it is all about as we’re coming to see more about our having relationships with our parents.
Yes, and our seeing what went wrong in them.
Yes. And so why can’t we have a good loving and true relationship with our Mother and Father who are God, or Gods, or something like that, and even speak with Them as we can with our own mother and father.
Do you think Their putting us in this negative state is because They are in some way displeased with us... I don’t really know what I mean, but is it like some sort of punishment?
Well you could see it like that, and that’s what we would be led to believe based on our parenting because we have all been subjected to that unloving treatment; we’ve all been punished in one way or another by our parents, so one might say that’s what God is doing to us. However I don’t actually feel that’s right. And I think it’s all much simpler than that, and that God is just giving us this experience of what it’s like to feel what feeling not loved feels like so we can know. But as to why God wants us to know that, that I still don’t know. But maybe that will come the further I go in my healing.
So you mean that God is actually loving us by subjecting us to all this horror, all these bad feelings, all the trauma we’ve all been put through - by God?
Yes, that’s a good way of putting it Terry. Yes, that They know it’s best for us, and so They are subjecting us to it; or, it might not even be a subjection, it might be just that this is what we’re living for now. But anyway, yes, that seems reasonable enough. And so whilst we want to remain in our evilness so They are helping us to, and if we want to progress further and deeper into it, so They are helping us, which really is all because They want us to anyway. And then if we want to work our way out of it, like we’re doing Terry, then They too will as They are with us, help us - even though again it’s all what They want.
But that makes it sound like we don’t really have any free will, that They are calling all the shots and we’re just going along with it, but going along with it believing we are in control.
Yes, that’s about how I see it.
Okay then Wise One, so what is free will then?
Oh God Terry I don’t know. I’m only telling you what I feel. I can’t get into all the intellectual side of things. But I think free will is just that we have it or think we have it, but still it’s all within God’s Will - there, how’s that?
Okay, yeah, why not. That sounds okay to me. So how then does one live God’s Will as the religions are always talking about?
I don’t know. But from all I can see, if God wants us to be how we are, and so let’s say perfect and true, that we’d be living fully honouring and expressing all of our feelings, so all of ourselves; then by doing that, we’d be living God’s will, because what else would be doing if that’s what is the best way for us to live - the true way.
Sounds plausible enough. But you could also then say that even by our living untrue to ourselves in our fucked-up ways, as you said, God also wants us to live like this, then we’re also living God’s will in our negative state, and so evil is God’s will too.
Yes, I don’t see why not.
So you’re saying that we might always be living God’s will, and really there’s nothing to go on about with it, with trying to work out what it means.
Yes, however as we feel bad when we’re living against and untrue to ourselves, so which way of living God’s will would you prefer, the evil way, or the true way?
Yes, I see what you mean Ann. Okay, that all sounds good. So, where are now with God?
Well I don’t know about you, but I am thinking that I want to get to know God, get to know my real Soul Parents, that’s a new feeling coming up in me and that makes me feel good.
Oh God, you’re not going to turn all religiously on me now are you!
I don’t know, I might. And why not? But don’t worry Terry, I can’t see that I’ll be wanting to go rushing off to church every day now or sitting deep in some meditation trying to connect with ‘The Source’. Na, for me that’s all trying to avoid getting in touch with your feelings, just more of running away and trying to use those things to block out feeling bad. And as we don’t want to do that, wanting instead to allow ourselves to feel as bad as... as bad as God wants us to feel, so I think I’ll just leave it up to God. Yes, and God can show me through my feelings, how He, or They, want me to be with Them... and for that matter, how to be with you, and with everyone - yes, how to be in my life. Yes, now that sounds really good. I like the feeling of that Terry.
Well it does sound good. I can handle that. And in fact it sounds very good, I’m very impressed Ann... so I’ll follow you. How’s that, you have your first acolyte or whatever it is they call them - disciple or something.
Fuck Terry you don’t have to take it that far, I’m only expressing how I feel.
Yeah all right. So we’ll see what comes up next in you.
And you never know Terry, it might even start to come up in you.
Yes, well I hope so, because I don’t want to be left behind, and ha, that’s now a new feeling for me. Yes, that’s how I feel. And oh shit, I even feel a bit bad about it, scared. Yes, Ann, god this is serious this feeling, I don’t want you to leave me. What if you move on so much ahead of me in all of this, and I’m no longer any good for you and you start to feel you need someone else, like someone else who’s into God as well and can also do all his healing expression. And then I’m left behind.
Now I feel very bad, oh god, what if that were to happen, seriously Ann, just when things seem to be going well for us. Oh God, what would happen if you left me, shit I don’t think I could cope with that. God I’ve always thought I could cope, and I have coped when women have left me before and I’ve left them, but now... ah fuck, this is new... I don’t want you to leave me Annie.
Shit now I feel like I’m going to cry. Annie don’t leave me! I feel like pleading with you as if you’ve said you are. No, No, please don’t go, I don’t want you to go, I’ll be good I promise, I’ll... I’ll, I don’t know what... but I’ll something - be good.
And here I go again, I feel like I’m about four again, and I’m at home with mum and she’s saying she’s had enough and that I have to stay in my room while she goes out. And I feel it’s all because I was bad, and I don’t want her to go even though the others are staying home to look after me. I don’t want her to go, no Annie, no mum, don’t go, don’t leave me, and I’m crying and crying and holding onto her and begging her not to leave me.
But she does. I can vaguely remember such times. She does, and l’m all alone and shit I feel bad. So miserable, so alone, so unwanted, so rejected, so, so fucking bad.
And what a bitch, that she could be so callous and unloving as to leave me, and right when I need her the most.
She was obviously angry with you, so the last thing I’d imagine would be that she’d want to be with you. That’s the whole point of her punishment to make you suffer by her rejecting you.
Yeah, what a fucking bitch. I can’t believe it. And so once again here I am saying that about my own fucking mother and yet I can remember it - at least the feelings, quite clearly now. And shit I feel bad, so distraught about her leaving me and not wanting to be with me, and of course when I was that young I don’t know about why she’s punishing me; all the stupid parents yelling and shouting at their children for being bad when it’s so clear the children don’t have clue what their mad parent is going on about.
Fuck, fuck, fuck, now I feel so fucking angry with her that it’s a good thing we don’t still live in the city or I think I’d go around there and give her a fucking good telling off. But fuck Ann, I am petrified, scared to fucking death that you will now leave me. That you will walk out on me, and fuck it, I can’t bear it. I feel like I want you to sign a contract that you won’t leave me. And then never break it.
Oh Annie, this might sound horrible, but I feel like I want to grab you and even tie you up, tie you to something so you can’t get away from me. And never let you out of my sight and control you so much that you can only do what I say and when I say it. And oh God, now having admitted that, because yes, there’s a part, a hidden part to me that wants to do that to you; now I’m worrying even more that because I’ve said that, that’s done it, and you really will leave me, not wanting to be with such a controlling bastard.
Fuck I feel bad, so bad, so fucking bad, so scared and so much hating these feelings. I want to do anything I can to get rid of them, to cancel them out, to make them go away. I want to control you, I do, to tie you up, to make you be how I want you to be, and to make sure you never leave me. Like you are my pet or something and I am totally in control of you. And fuck, now I can even relate to those stories we read about those men who capture those young women and keep then hidden away, in a box or a room under the house or somewhere and have them there all for their pleasure, all so they can do whatever they please with them, and all to have absolute power over them.
Yes, I can understand how you don’t want that person to ever leave you, that you’re so afraid of them leaving that you have to completely try and possess them, and of course I don’t know if that’s what those men want, but I can see that if I let my imagination run wild, oh God, I might be capable of doing that.
I don’t think so Terry, for if you were you’d be doing it as those men did. But I think it’s good that you’re expressing such hidden feelings and even using such men to help you get more in touch with them and these parts of yourself.
Oh I feel so scared, I’m shaking with it, with the fear and thought that you might leave me, just leave me. I don’t feel anything about you leaving me for another man or anything like that, but just leave me. And I still feel like a boy and I don’t want mum to leave me, and why did she leave me and what had I done that was so bad for her to leave me. And... and will she ever come back, and why is she so angry with me, and why doesn’t she love me, and why is she treating me so badly and why don’t the others tell her to stop, and why, and why, and I want to know why, I don’t understand; and I feel so bad, like I’m going to have a breakdown with the fear and panic of it all. I feel fucking traumatised to the core of my being and just like that, all because you started talking about God.
Bad, bad, I feel so scared and so very bad, bad, I feel so bad, so bad, like I am so bad, I am such a bad boy and mum doesn’t love me anymore and she’s going to leave me, and... and oh shit I can remember her threatening to leave me if I don’t be good, and feeling so terrified by her saying that, because what if she did, what would happen to me and... and shit I feel bad, all over again, just as I’ve spoken about some of this before, but now I feel like it’s even deeper, much deeper, so deep that it’s tearing me apart. Fuck Ann, I’ll never be the same again.
And remember Terry it’s all already happened to you. You’re just getting in touch with it all, all you’ve blocked out. So the bad things never actually happened, she didn’t actually leave you.
Yes, that’s right, she didn’t, but fuck she put the wind up me. And I’ll never forgive her for scaring the shit out of me so much like that. I mean fuck, I am terrified, and she did that to me, and even though she stayed, fuck I feel like she did leave, it was that bad.
Yes, I suppose the little child doesn’t know, does it. For it, it’s all real in the moment. So her saying and threatening and even walking out of the house like that, for you in that moment she has gone, you don’t know she’s just gone up the street to buy some more milk and so she’s using that to rub it into you, to make you ‘get the point’ more. But for you it must have felt like the most terrifying thing in the world, as you’re saying.
Yes, it was, that’s how I feel. Fuck me and what you’re saying I can relate to that. Fuck, parents say all sorts of things like that to their children and their children are probably freaking out inside. No bloody wonder I was yelling at her not to go and trying to hold onto her. And for her it’s probably no big deal, just another way of trying to discipline me during any day, and yet for me it’s the end of the world... worse - the end of my life!
Yeah fuck that, that’s how I feel, like it’s the end of everything for me, like I’m going to be extinguished or something, snuffed out, annihilated or something... yes something that bad. So it’s no small thing, and something ‘I’ll get over’; no, look at me, I’ve never gotten over it!
You never got over it Terry. I can’t bear how the American’s say gotten all the time.
All right, so I’ve never gotten over it, it fits, what else can I say, and it’s how I feel and fuck the words, and fuck you, and fuck mum, fuck the whole fucking lot of you. You don’t understand the shit I am going through. I am freaking out here, I am suffering, I am fucked, I am heavily traumatised and you don’t give a shit, you have to stop me and correct what words I’m saying, you’re just like them, wanting to have control over me. So fuck ya, go on then, you can piss off and leave me alone. I don’t care, and I’ll probably be better without you anyway, at least I’ll be able to say gotten, gotten, gotten to the fucking wall and it won’t criticise or correct me.
Always having to tell me how to fucking be, that’s what women do, you’re always telling us men how we should be, that we’re never fucking good enough, that we smell too much, or our fingernails are too dirty, or we don’t change our underwear regularly enough. You’re always the bloody perfect ones and we men are inferior, just Neanderthals compared to you superior beings.
Well we’re only speaking the truth, and it’s how it is, you do smell and should change your underpants every day.
Oh fuck you, fuck off, I’ve had enough of all your shit, I don’t care, go and fucking leave me, go and live with other women and you can all sit around all day long complaining about us men. And good riddance to the lot of you, why do I bother, why do I want to have a woman in my life anyway when all she is, is like my fucking mother. Fuck the lot of you, I can’t bear you, so piss off out of my life, leave me alone, I’ll be a hell of a lot better off without you.
Well, go on?
Go on what?
Fucking leave! I’ve had enough of you. I want you out.
Terry, I’m not going anywhere, it’s only your repressed bad feelings that are speaking, and it’s your mother you don’t want and who you’re really speaking to, not me - I’m not your mother. You’re just using me to focus on her, which is what we’re meant to do for each other. So keep telling me to go if you want, but you should understand that it’s really your mother you’re angry with and telling to go, just as she told you to go. And as you can’t go back and tell her to go, you can tell her now through me - by telling me to go.
Yeah well I see what you mean, but it’s all to much. So fuck her and fuck you too, I’m going to bed.
The next day
I’m sorry Ann for going on at you like that last night.
That’s all right Terry, it all has to come out and I can see that; I can see that you’re in a great deal of pain and you’re suffering terribly and really it’s all what you’ve needed to say to your mother, but how can you say all that when you’re four years old and feeling so unloved and rejected by her. So you need to use me, and I don’t take it personally, however if you do really want me to leave I will, you know that, I’m not going to stay if you don’t want me to.
Of course I don’t want you to leave, fuck no, as I said I’m scared that you will, it was all just a reaction to it, to feeling so powerless I guess, feeling so bad, like that, shit I’ve never been like that before - I’ve not felt like that before. So angry and so scared; so angry at feeling so scared, and then turning it all on you and shitting all over you.
I know but still it’s what you feel, and you can’t deny that, and you - we both - have to accept that. All that you said about us women, and that’s fair enough, we’re all fucked, none of us are perfect and we’ve all got a lot of anger and resentment about each other, so it’s only right to expect it. Our relationship is not one of smooth sailing and one of deep passionate love with us both finding each other completely perfect all the time. And we’ve had our arguments, and as we’ve agreed to say whatever we feel no matter what vile hated we spit out at each other, that’s how it is, that’s what we’re trying do and so that’s what we’re here for each other for, to be a friend, someone who can take it all, and still be here, still be your friend.
So you don’t hate me, you still like me?
Yes. And I expect there will be a lot more of that coming up in both of us, because we’re both very angry, very hurt and full of resentment deep within us, and all we’re trying to keep suppressed is masses of anger at how we were treated and at how unloved we feel. And as we’ve only got each other and you can’t go over to your parents every time more of it comes up yelling at and abusing them, so we have to do it to and with each other. It’s all therapy Terry, the whole lot of it, and we’re in constant therapy with each other.
You mean like we’re at the shrinks twenty-four hours a day.
Yes, something like that.
Last night I felt like I should have been in a padded cell and allowed to just go for it, and I would have tried to smash the place up. I felt so bad, but I know I was only just touching on it, and that scares me, to think that there might be stuff down inside me that I’m not aware of but might be very bad. What if I were to suddenly and uncontrollably lash out and hit you or start smashing up the place.
I don’t know Terry, I think we’ll just have to deal with that should it come up in you. But as you’re not what I’d call a ‘hitter’, so I don’t think you’ll do it; but yes, that’s a thought, I can’t begin to imagine what it might be like for those people who are used to expressing themselves so aggressively when they come to feel all their deeper repressed anger.
Don’t think about it Ann, as you said, we’ll just have to wait and see.
And maybe it’s not so much about that anyway, maybe as it is all just about our seeing the truth of it all, and our accepting it, that we won’t actually be taken that far. I don’t know, because if it happened in your early life and it’s part of you, then perhaps that’s what you’ll have to deal with through your healing of it all.
So how do you feel now Terry about it all?
I don’t know. Actually in one part of me I feel sort of clearer and better for the outburst, like I have managed to clear some more yuk out of me. But then the rest of me still feels like shit and scared about you leaving me, so there must still be more I’ve got to express. But I feel exhausted, I’m glad I don’t have to go to work today because I feel like I’ve been run over, I’m so stiff and aching all over. I feel like I’m the one who has been beaten up. And I feel so tired, so drained, exhausted as I said. I just want to collapse in a heap and do nothing all day.
Well that’s fine by me. It was a lot you went through, so it’s natural you feel a little worse for wear today. But make sure you keep telling me if you feel bad; keep trying to see if you do feel bad and you’re not trying to hide such feelings or block them out because you feel like you’ve had enough. I think it’s all very important Terry, and in these hard times for us to keep going, and see what else can come up.
I’ll try, but I feel knacked well and truly, and so much so, I think I’ll be going back to bed for the rest of the day.
How about we have breakfast and then if you feel up to it we go for nice walk along the beach, the new one we found the other day.
Yeah okay, that sounds good.