Ann, I’m understanding more what we’re doing, having read the first free book on the Feeling Bad? Express your bad feelings website: Feeling Bad? Bad feelings are GOOD!. So really what we’re doing is setting out to heal our childhood repression, to bring up all the bad stuff that happened to us during our forming years, all so we can see what did happen to us.
I think Terry it’s more about expressing all those bad feelings we felt during our early life but weren’t allowed to express.
Yes, but I can see how the most important part of it is to understand what happened to us and why - the truth, as it says.
Yes, well that would happen as you reconnect with all those bad feelings. I mean, they’ve got to come from somewhere; I mean, we have been made to feel bad, we don’t just feel bad for the fun of it. So what happened to us to make us feel bad. How were we treated and how did that make us feel; and I mean, really feel, that’s what I see as what’s important. Because it’s how we were treated back then that’s made us be how we are now, how we feel now, and so I guess, that means that if we feel bad now, it’s because we were made to feel bad back then.
Gee, do you think that’s how it really is... that we only feel bad now because we felt bad back then?
I don’t know. Possibly. It’s a lot to grasp. I mean, what if it is like that, that is awesome now I’ve said it, that we only feel bad because we only felt bad back then, so if we only felt good back then, we’d only feel good now, yeah, gee, I wonder if that is how it is. And maybe the good feelings I have now, and my bad ones, are all only because that’s how I felt back then. But na, I feel good and bad because of what’s happening to me now-
Yes, but maybe the two are connected. Like it said in that book, we can use what we’re feeling now, as those feelings are the same feelings we felt back when we were children but weren’t allowed to express, to help us reconnect with them. And that’s what we’ve done a bit of, isn’t it? As we’ve spoken about what we’ve felt, and longed for the truth of those feelings, they have made us feel like we’re connecting back to our past, and helping us see what our relationship with our parents is really like. Like me riding my bike with dad in the driveway.
Yes, that’s what I find the most important part Terry. That it helps us to, through our feelings, relate to each other properly, and I’m coming to understand that we don’t just naturally do it, because we didn’t do it naturally with our parents when we were growing up. And that’s what I want to do, be able to relate in the right ways with you. I want us to be able to connect with each other properly, and that somehow our speaking about all our feelings can help us do that. It’s already helping us do that, that much we’ve seen for ourselves already.
Yes I agree, that is the good part of it, and that’s what I want too. And as I’m having to accept that I’m not perfect, and that I do have things wrong with me, then-
You’re not perfect Terry?
Yes, well it is difficult to have to admit it. Maybe not as perfect as I thought I was. Look, all right, I admit it, I was a right prick to you Ann, some of the time. I was very stuck-up and believing that I was right and good, and that there was even nothing wrong with me. It was all a put-on front mind you, that much I can now accept and admit about myself.
You’re right about that. But at least you’re big enough to be able to admit that you’re not god.
Yes, I can say that. A minor god perhaps, one of the lesser gods of humanity, but-
But one day you’ll give that rubbish up too Terry. Is that what you were going to say too love?
Oh god, all right, yes, that one day I’ll be able to give it all up. I am a nothing person, not a god, not anything - just me.
Good boy, and you have to say it all. It’s what we’re to do, say all we think and feel.
The speaking about, owning up to it, and then saying it, sure does have profound effects on you, doesn’t it, at least that much I’ve experienced. I can feel or sense these things or parts in me when we talk, they are sort of just back there in the shadows of my mind, and I can easily brush them aside, like I’ve mostly done all my life. But when I actually stop and focus on them, and then speak them, I feel like me, the whole of me, in some way is moving, sort of like I’m embracing a new me, or new part of me, and I’m able to see myself a bit better - what I’m made of, how I am. And as hard as it is to do often, still it does make me feel good when I do it. It’s as if I can actually feel myself changing or growing, or something. And I know now that if I don’t speak about it, then I just go on the same way as I’ve always been.
It’s you expressing yourself Terry, and not keeping those parts of yourself hidden, like we mostly all do. And I’m sure that our longing and wanting the truth of ourselves, that’s what makes all the difference, because I know people who talk all day long about how they feel, even complaining about all the bad and negative stuff, but they don’t seem to grow or change, in fact, I wish they’d shut up.
Yeah, I know the type. It flows effortlessly out of them, a continual stream of verbage. And I know what you mean that they don’t grow or change, because mostly from my experiences they say the same things over and over, never really moving on. I agree with you, as it was stressed in that book, it’s wanting to see the truth, to want to know what you’re really like, how you tick, that’s the big difference in all of this, and doing it all through your feelings. I mean to say, it all sounds so easy. So many people go on about wanting to see what makes them tick, doing all that psychology, going to university, and when all you need to do is just speak, how we all do, but also wanting to uncover the truth of what you’re speaking about - why you are speaking, why you are wanting to say what you do, what’s really going on deeper within you. And that’s what I like about it, you don’t have to go and do any courses or workshops, learn some technique that you’ve then got to apply yourself to. It all seems so natural, something we all should just be doing. But I can now see why we don’t just do it naturally, because we were prevented from doing it when we were growing up. All that shit parenting, all that stopped us from freely expressing ourselves, it’s caused us all, we’ll me anyway, so much damage, that I’m beginning to see.
Me too. I feel very damaged, all screwed around, and like half the time I don’t really know who I am. What am I Terry? I am a person called Ann, but what really is that - what really is Ann. And that’s what I want to find out. And I understand now that I can do that through bringing out and speaking about all my feelings. And I’m beginning to see how we are all so much mind orientated, with our minds we control everything, even some of what we feel. So to get my mind out of the way and just stay focused on my feelings - that’s what I want to do.
I’m seeing that too, just how much our minds are in control of us. I know people have said that forever, but so many other people talk about the mind being the be-all to end-all. And that our minds are in a way god, and that we should use our minds to take complete control.
Of our feelings.
Yes, and then what happens? Do they think we’re not to have any feelings at all. It is certainly very appealing not having any bad feelings, but like it said in that book, when you look at your bad feelings as assets, something that are very valuable and important, something to help you know - feel - whether you are on the right track in life or not, then to want to cancel them all out, how would you ever know you were living the right way.
And that’s what I like about you Terry, you do want to live the right way.
Well, yes I do. I’ve never really thought about it before, I’ve just lived how I do, but with all of this, I am feeling that I do want to live the right way, and what’s more, that there actually is a right way! And so also a wrong way, and I don’t want to be wrong. I want to heal or get all the wrongness out of me, I want to make myself be all right.
So what do you think is all the wrongness in you Terry?
Well I’m not so sure about that either as yet, but from what I read, all that is not right so far as how I’m naturally meant to be. I don’t know about all that soul stuff, that we’re controlled or guided by our soul, but for me now, I just want to be a natural person, someone who is expressing themselves, their personality I guess, naturally and freely, and not using my mind to apply any learnt ways to behave. Yes, I want to know that I’m free in myself as I am, and not all fucked up because of how I was treated when I was young.
So what you’re really saying Terry is, you want to be true, to live true to yourself, that’s something I got from the book.
Yes, that’s right: True to myself. And so how do I do that, how do I become that?
By expressing all your feelings and seeking the truth of them, that’s what it said, and that’s all I see we can do.
Yes, that is what it said. See, there again is another example of what I was saying. You can read all this stuff, all about it, but it’s not until you actually start to speak about it yourself, our discussing it like this, that it all starts to make sense for you.
I know. I hated that about school, you had to just sit there and take all that stuff into your mind, and at our school you never had anyone to talk about it with, and the last thing you wanted to do was talk to your friends about school work, and mum and dad weren’t interested, so it just went in one ear and out the other. Some people must have got it, and maybe they can learn things that way, retain all that mental stuff, but I couldn’t, and now I can see it was because I didn’t have anyone to talk about it all with. I needed someone to go over it all with, so I can see how it made me feel, and how I make sense of it by putting it in my own words.
Yes, I’m like that to. Just get on with it, rather than sitting there beforehand learning about it. So that’s what I like about this, it’s all very straightforward, provided you can easily express your feelings. But that’s where we can help each other.
Yes, and that’s what I like about it. In wanting to uncover the truth of yourself through your feelings we are having a good relationship, in that we’re actively connecting and sharing and so relating to each other. And about worthwhile things, not just trivia, not the latest news or updating each other on what we’ve been doing while we’ve been away from each other. Terry, our relationship has already changed so much - are you aware of that?
Yes, and I like it. I like we’re it’s heading, not that I know where it’s heading, but I prefer it now to how it was, that’s for sure. And I like feeling like I’m getting to know parts of myself, and you - getting to know you better; yes, I’m very happy with it so far. But as I said, I’m still a bit worried about it getting much more difficult, feeling bad more and having to keep speaking about all the bad stuff. And I’m also beginning to worry a bit about what it might do to my relationship with mum and dad.
What do you mean?
Well, what if what it said in that book starts to happen to me. That I start to realise that my relationship with mum and dad isn’t as good as I have thought it is.
But if it’s good Terry, then it’s good, there’s nothing you can do about that, nothing will change or interfere with that.
Yes I know, but what if it’s not actually that good.
You mean that you’ve been making it up, and that it might not be as good as you want to believe and think it is.
Yes. That’s just it, what if I am making all or some of the good up, and that really it’s bad. What if it all turns bad. I mean, what if I don’t actually want to see or be with them anymore, even turning my back on them. Oh god, I can hardly even say those words.
Say more Terry.
What if it ALL is bad. I mean, what if it turns out that my whole relationship with them is false.
Then it’s false.
Yes, but what will that mean.
Like, will you get into trouble or something? Like it will mean that if you no longer want to have anything to do with them because it’s all wrong and you’ve come to realise that it’s all a lie, that something bad is going to happen to you, other than you’re just not wanting to have a relationship with them anymore.
Yes. Just to consider it, not actually wanting to have a relationship with them Ann, now...
But Terry, don’t you see what you’re saying. You wouldn’t even be saying any of this, there wouldn’t be any doubt or question in you as to how good and real and true your relationship with them is, if you didn’t have some doubts and reservations about it already.
I know, and that’s the problem. I have always thought it was a good relationship I’ve had with them, but now, with all of this, having you talking about it all, our reading what it said in that book; now I’m beginning to have other thoughts. You know, they seem to be creeping in, little by little, and I don’t know if I want them.
Well you know what you should do about them - speak about them all to me. And want to see the truth of them.
Yes, I know, and I’ll try, but I don’t think I’m ready for it yet.
If you’re not ready, then you don’t have to force yourself, there’s no point in doing that. And when you are ready, then you’ll be ready to talk about them. And for the time being, I’m not going anywhere, not that I know of at least, so I’ll be here when you do want to talk.
Ann that makes me feel better, you saying you’ll be here, because at least I won’t have to go through it all alone.
No Terry, we’ve got each other, that’s what we’re together for. Look, my understanding from reading that book and all I’ve read so far about Feeling-Healing and Childhood Repression, is that it could mean that all we have thought was right turns out to be wrong, so our whole lives, all we’ve thought and believed about everything - ourselves, each other, the world, our parents, all our relationships, God, it all might turn out to be wrong, and we might have to give it all up.
So Ann, would you be prepared to give up your relationship with your parents, not see them ever again.
Yes, if that’s what I feel, if that’s where my feeling-expression takes me. If that’s all part of the truth I’m to see about myself, that all my relationships are crap, and even with you Terry, and I’m to give the whole dam lot up, then I will. I feel determined and committed to this thing Terry, and I want to go the whole way. I don’t want to just dabble in it, I want to see where it will take me.
You’d even give me up, even though we’re doing this together!?
Yes. Everything. And I know it’s easy for me to say it, it might be different if it comes to it, but that’s how I feel about it now. I have to look after myself Terry. I’ve grown up being told it was right for the woman to look after everyone else, well I’ve got news for everyone else, they can now look after themselves, because I’m going to only look after myself. And I don’t mean, stuff you, I don’t give a shit about you Terry, and being a completely selfish arsehole. But what I mean is looking after myself in my feelings, to try and only do what I feel to do, and to keep speaking and seeking the truth of them. And see what happens... Are you all right Terry - you’re looking a bit pale?
No, I’m not all right! When you say that, that you’d be prepared to give me up too, oh shit that hurts, that’s like a knife going right through me. I don’t want you to give me up, I feel so scared, what will I do? I need you in this, I don’t think I can do it by myself. I...
Keep going Terry.
I feel like you’re just going to throw me out, abandon me, and I can’t bear that. Oh shit I feel bad, so bad, I don’t know that I’ve ever felt this bad before. Throw me out into the street or something bad like that - cast me aside. I know it doesn’t make any sense, but-
It doesn’t have to make any sense, keep speaking about all you feel.
All right. I’m so scared that you’ll walk away from me, shit this is hard to say, I can hardly speak... Turn your back on me, just dump me. Shit I feel like I’m going to shit my pants with fear, I feel so scared, so bloody scared, I don’t know if I’ve ever felt this scared before. I don’t know what to do, I feel so awful, so scared...
Just keep speaking about your fears, saying how scared you feel. It’s okay, it’s good that you’re feeling this way, it’s obviously deep stuff coming up in you.
Yes, it sure feels like it because why else would I feel so scared. Oh I feel all faint, and like I’m going to be sick. I want to lie down... on the floor, I don’t think I could make it to the bed. I feel all weak, shaky-
Like you’ve had a shock?
Yes, a shock, that’s it... I have had a shock. What you said is shocking, that you might throw me out, just dump me if I don’t do what you do, if I don’t keep going expressing my feelings and trying to see what’s causing them.
I didn’t say I’d throw you out, and you know we’d talk more about it all before that happened, it’s not as if I’m just going to suddenly announce that I’ve had it with you and you’re out. Shit I rely on you to keep me, you’re the one making money, and I don’t feel like I’d want to move back in with dad and mum, not that they’d have me anyway.
I know, but that’s what it feels like. Oh shit I feel bad, and like I’ll never feel good again. I feel so terrible, my head feels like it’s going to explode, and yes I know we would talk about it, but what you said about suddenly turning your back on me, that’s what it feels like you’d do, that’s what I’m the most scared about. And it’s as if you will have plotted and planned, schemed about it all behind my back, and then suddenly just make an announcement and move out with Jenny or something.
Yes, I feel like that, that you’re scheming behind my back and you’re keeping me in the dark, you’re not going to let me know your plans, you’re just going to spring them on me. Ah I’m so scared of you doing that, promise me Ann you’re not scheming now behind my back.
I can’t believe that you would be, but I can’t throw this feeling off that you are. I feel like I want to run around and search the whole place, you know, looking for some sort of evidence that you are.
What sort of evidence?
Umm... look at your diary - do you still keep your diary? Look in your side of the wardrobe, I don’t know... look in your handbag, look for some clue, some hidden letters - yes, perhaps you’re having a secret affair. Oh shit Ann, this just feels like it will never end.
That you’re having an affair behind my back. And soon, any moment now you’re going to announce that you’re going to run off with him, and leave me, and I feel so hurt, so despairing, so miserable, because what would I do, what would become of me. And I’d be left all alone, and not able to work on myself with you anymore, just when we’ve begun. You haven’t met someone who’s better at expressing all their bad feelings have you?
No Terry, there is no one, I assure you of that. And I’d tell you anyway.
Of course I would, I wouldn’t go behind your back. If I feel I need to be with someone else other than you in a personal way, if I were to suddenly meet a stranger on the bus and fall madly in love, I’d tell you, I wouldn’t keep that from you. And I hope you wouldn’t keep such a think secret from me if you were to meet someone you felt you wanted to be with more than me.
Oh God, how did we get into this. I don’t want to be talking about all of this.
Why not, why not Terry, are you hiding something from me? Are you, because if you are, you’d better come clean.
Well... oh shit, it’s all so difficult. And I know you’re right. I have been meaning to tell you for a long time, but I don’t know, it’s too hard.
How about saying: ‘Ann, I’m having an affair, and...’
All right, but I’m not having an affair. In was a while ago, I slept with one of my clients a few times, that was all.
Karen you mean?
Yes... how did you know?
It was obvious Terry, you were infatuated by her, all that show she put on for you, all that gushing all over you; and how wonderful you were ‘My Terry’. My Terry does this, and my Terry does that, it was enough to make you puke. So I knew something was probably going on, and I’d wait and see. And then she was no longer around so I figured you’d got rid of her, you at least must have still preferred me.
Oh I did Ann, that’s right, I did get rid of her. She kept ringing me every five minutes, and asking me to do things for her. She wanted me to move in with her, and oh god, I couldn’t bear it. It was such a relief coming back to being with you, you were - are! - so undemanding. And all that Terry darling stuff, no, it was too much and I got well and truly sucked into having my ego pampered, but it was only for a few weeks, I think we slept together about five times, and then that was enough, I had to get away.
Oh Ann, I’m so sorry, to disrespect you like that, to go behind your back. I feel so bad, so, so bad, I feel like you should reject me, tell me to fuck off, and I would understand.
Ah Terry, no need to worry about that. You’d have to be serious with another woman before I’d do that to you. I could read Little Miss Karen like a book and I didn’t think you’d stay with her for very long.
So you don’t hate me?
No, and actually I feel good, happy that you’ve brought it out, as it’s just another thing that has been preventing us from having a true relationship.
God I can’t believe how relaxed you are about it Ann.
Accepting is what I’d say Terry.
And to think that I’m the one who is so scared of you doing that to me, going behind my back, and yet I’m the one who went behind your back.
Yes, now there must be something in that. It’s like you’re projecting onto me or something. It’s as if you’re me, and you’re untrustworthy, having an affair behind your back. Or something... I don’t know. But I read in that book that you can only be with another person how you are with yourself, which I mean is that you think everyone else is how you are, unless you’ve grown up properly so as to know that you’re not everyone else and that we’re all different. And I know you would probably say you know I’m different to you, but it’s interesting that you think I’m the bad one, and going to do to you, what in fact you’ve done to me and you’re the bad one. I’m the innocent one in this.
Yes, it’s all very confusing.
So Terry, how do you feel now?
That terrible pressure, and all the fear has eased off. I still feel very bad for what I did to you, going behind your back like that. I’ve never had an affair with anyone before in any of my relationships, I’ve usually been very faithful, but I don’t know... I think I was feeling bored with everything and needed some entertainment in my life - something new.
Yes well I can understand that. That’s why I had to pull you up and make you face how our relationship was going. I could see that next time it would be someone more important to you, and I wasn’t prepared to wait until that time.
But Ann, don’t you feel that perhaps we are not right for each other, and that you’d be better off with someone else.
I admit I do think about that times, but I can’t live that way Terry, I like being with you, and liking it more lately now we’re working on expressing our feelings to see the truth of what they are making us feel. So I want to keep going with you. And sure, you might not be my perfect Mr Right, but what am I to do, throw you out and hope he walks into my life. Na, I’ve done that before and he never appeared, now I’m happy being able to express my feelings to you, and so far you’ve not stopped me, you’ve even encouraged me. And that makes me feel good. So I’m happy with how it is.
Have you had an affair or anything whilst we’ve been together?
No, nothing that serious. However I have had a thought or two at one time or another when I’ve met or seem a man I’ve fancied. But nothing that has gone that far. And I don’t want to jump into bed with a man just because he butters up my ego. I’ve done all of that Terry, and it’s never done anything for me. Sure it was fun, but now I want to get on and be serious in my life. I want to understand myself. And so for that to happen, I can be with you, but if you were stop wanting to come along with me, or I with you, then we’d stop, having talked about it all, and I would guess, having come to an agreement about it, as things wouldn’t be working anymore. So I don’t have to think about it. I only have to keep staying focused on my feelings, and you’re either with me or not.
We have to come clean, it’s all got to come out, all the hidden secrets, that being a commitment to yourself to stop hiding anything in the closet; be it a secret affair, a fantasy, or a bad feeling or thought you’re not expressing. To open yourself up to everything that you are, to confess and tell your friend, tell someone who wants to listen to it all, and listen unconditionally and non-judgementally - to bring it out and tell the world who is your friend. And to hear yourself say all the bad things about yourself. And to speak about all the bad feelings associated with them: what you’re afraid of, scared of, what punishment you fear might await you. And when it’s time for you to come clean, the bad feelings push up, and as with them all, you can either choose to deny them, put the lid back on them all, or take it right off and speak and express and emote them all. And it’s harrowing stuff, however it certainly clears the air making for a truer relationship with yourself and your partner or friend. And we have to accept and feel the pain of all our wrongdoings. And they will come to light. And we’ve got to want them to, even the ones we don’t even know we’re doing that are wrong. It’s all part of wanting to live true, to be honest with yourself, and with your friend - to live true to yourself. It’s all a part of stopping the lie, of stopping lying, of stopping being false - of uncovering the whole truth of yourself. And all through your feelings.